Chief prosecutor Carin Janssen says she can still try the boys for murder even if there is no body.
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I heard about that, did you also see that they had Joran and one of the Kalpoe boys handcuffed together and taken to interrogation? I was shocked that they allowed them to be so close together and so was Nancy Grace. I would think that this might allow them to talk and perhaps get their stories straight. I guess there were guards with them so they wouldnt be allowed to talk much, but I just couldnt see that happening in the United States or even in Canada(where I am from). Natalee and her family will be in my prayers. I also wanted to thank you for taking the time to inform people from all over the world, hopefully Natalee will be found soon.
There are so many rumors involved with this case. You hear Paulus VD Sloot said this or that, how do we know for sure what he said exactly and the way in which he siad it. Charlotte aks why would he say this? Well, maybe he said it in context with the assumption that Natalee would be found, I believe he is supposed to have said this when everyone thought she would turn up. As in he (PVDS) thought she was a run-a-way and he told his son that he cant be arrested because no body has been found. You see we dont know what is going on, becasuee by Arubaian law the prosecutor cant divuldge any info. However, the Porsecuter tonight did divuldge some info and she is now breaking the law, byut trying the case in public. You know this goes on here in the USA all the time. the Prosecutor tries to win the public’s opinion by leaking info before the trial.
On a side note, think about 3 young boys/men have yet to break in more than 2 weeks of intensive interrogations. Unlike the USA these interrogations are very tough. Do you REAL THINK these 3 could hold out for this long? And all 3 of them, dont you think 1 of them would have broken or at the least slipped up and let some bit of info to come out? Even the prosecutor has stated the 3 ARE co-operating during the questioning? And my last point about how the story has changed 8 times, do you think you could NOt convince the authorites in these 2 weeks that if it was you that your story might subtlly changed a bit?
I hope Natalee is a run-a-way, then she is alive. I come away with the impression that MOST people want to find a dead body. So they can convict someone. I wish and pray that Natalee is alive not dead like most people. I dont care about her emabarrassment, or the fact that she might be a run-a-way, I just would like for this pretty younf lady to live out her life.
I agree that Joran looked scared, in the pictures I had seen before I couldnt believe that he wasnt like 19 or 20 but when I saw the video today he looked like a scared little boy.
There is no way Natalalee is a run away. Don’t insult her with that implication. You don’t travel to Aruba to run away. To imply that she ran away or committed suicide is further victimizing her. She would have taken her passport for God’s sake. Don’t insult her (or our) intelligence. Look at her family, and her friends and her accomplishments. She did not run away. S
I wish she were alive and that we weren’t even having to worry about the lack of justice in ARUBA. It breaks my heart to know what her mother is going through. It took many years before a murder was solved in my own family. It is hell not knowing.
I believe in my heart that Natalee was harmed by the creepy self-centered, spoiled 17 year old who was permitted to drink and gamble when he wasn’t even of legal aqe. His own father, a Judge, either knew that his son did these things or should have known that his son did these things. What irresponsible parents. They even allowed him to have his own apartment attached to their family home. Why would they do this if they cared to know what he was up to?
Who told the boys to lie? The scapeboat told Greta that it was the Judge father. The scapegoat has NO reason to lie Joran and his father obviously have reasons to lie. People who have no reason to lie DON”T. The truth is much easier to keep straight. Then again, when the truth would convict you of murder, perhaps you get together with your dad and your buddies and fabricate a lie.
Aruba botched this case from the beginning, and it is sickening.
God bless Natalee and her family. And may the guilty parties—all of them—be brought to justice.
I think we need to deconstruct that instruction by Paul vdS to Joran and the Kalpoe brothers. We have to look at it analytically, asking ourselves some questions and considering some aspects of it:
(1) If your kids went out one night with a girl, and then the next day some people were looking for her, would you even THINK to say, “No corpse, no case?” Hell, no! The thought of “a corpse” wouldn’t even occur to you at this point…UNLESS you knew there WAS one.
(2) If the police hadn’t really even begun an investigation yet at the point when you tutored these guys in the finer points of law and evasion of justice, why would you even think to do it? Would that even occur to you? Or, not knowing Natalee yourself, wouldn’t you just surmise that the girl may have gone off to party somewhere else? You would have NO REASON to prepare these kids to stonewall the cops and to make a case for their defense.
(3) Okay then, so when there wasn’t even a “case” yet, WHY would you specifically instruct your son and his pals that without a corpse there was no case? This is the most important aspect to think about, IMO, and this is what I come up with: You would tell them this information as a cryptic suggestion that they’d sure as sh*t better get RID of the girl’s body somehow! You couldn’t actually come right out and TELL them to dump the body somewhere where it wouldn’t be found, right? NOT if you were still hoping for a judgeship (and a reputation)! Because that would be several crimes even beyond obstruction of justice. You would then be complicit in the girl’s disappearance. But what you COULD do without too much risk was to implant the suggestion in their minds that to save their asses they’d better get back to the body, wherever they’d stashed it, and dispose of it properly. You would use language that sounded general (“no corpse, no case”) so that later you could say it WAS general advice. What you wouldn’t have apparently considered was how f’ing BIZARRE it was to even say “no corpse no case” at that point. Unless you knew.
Those young MEN (it really disgusts me to call them boys) lied and acted guilty before anyone else knew any crime had been committed. They knew there had been a crime that they needed to cover up—because they committed the crime(s).
The Island of Aruba should denounce the way the young men pointed to the 2 black (notice they weren’t Dutch) security guard scapegoats (who stayed in jail a lot longer than the “judge in training”). The Island of Aruba should also denounce Joran for hiding behind the fact he is a minor. He is only months away from being 18, and he sure was acting like 18 (drinking, driving, gambling). Why should he be treated like a minor now?
Any American school that offered him a scholarship should YANK it away pronto. What a creep. I wouldn’t want him going to my daughter’s college.
I hope he stays in jail. But if Aruba does let him out, let him stay in Aruba or Holland—not the USA.
It sure seems to me that Everyone wants a Dead Body. I woould rather Natalee be alive. From day 3 – 99% of the people were wanting vengance, (which is fine if these 3 are guilty)However IMHO there was NOT enough effort put into finding Natalee. I think I kow what the family and neighborhood is going thru as I Live in Birmingham. So many here are Not following all of your scenarios and theories, and can we Not have concerns without being vilified? I want justice just as much as anyone else, however I think convicting someone in public is Not the way to go about a Solid conviction in a Trial.
I dont know Joran of his father or Natalee or her parents, but what is certain there are far more unanswered question than there are answers.
Guywdog, I think it’s unfair (and rather shocking, honestly) that you would accuse those who acknowledge the rational probability that Natalee is dead of doing so because they “want a dead body” and do not share your preference “that Natalee be alive.” I certainly hope Natalee is alive, and I believe most here do. But I also know that as time passes it becomes less and less likely that she is still alive, and if that be the case, then my wish is for her very admirable mother, father, and family to have at least an honest answer as to her fate—AND (IF she is dead) that those who are guilty or complicit in whatever act brought her to her death should be brought to justice.
W’n’SGurl- I got banned over at the scaredmonkeys web forum because they are a bunch of murder watchers. All of 2 dozen people have been banned over there because some of us are not of the lynch mob mentality. Meaning that for the majority over there all they wanted was a body so they could go ahead and lynch Joran. I dont know if he is guilty, (it sure seems he might be) However there was a group of us that had the opinion that Not Enough effort was made to find Natalee at the very beginning, maybe you could understand if you look at it that way.
Sorry you are shocked, but maybe you ought to think that there are LOTs of people that think the way I do.
WNSEAGurl, I was not pointing a finger in your direction, but the clear majority throughout the web are just into this for the spectical. Go check it out over at the scaredmonkeys website, that place is rampant with lynch mobs. And if you say you have an open mind it is banning time for you. I know of at least 6 people from the Netherlands that have been banned over there just because they look at things differently than we do over her ein the USA. They in no-way bashed natalee or her parents however they got banned because they ask questions, and then the amdins think they are slinging mud at Natalee. There are So Many unanswered questions surronding this case, such as Natalee’s “X” boyfriend went ont he TRIP on his Own and then didnt come back with the kids but he had pans all along to come back 3 days afterwards. So many rumors but so few facts. The Mountain Brrok high scholl kids have varying stories as to how this all happned, so much so that people like me aks questions, but then we are labeled Bashers or mud slingers. it sure does appear the 3 would most likely be the suspects, but what if they aren’t? The police have expelled all their energy and efforts into just 1 scenario. I fear they will never find Natalee, and I am sorry but if you spend some time on these forums you will see for yourself that the “STORY” is so much more important that Natalee. it also disgusts me to see people so quick to judge and so quick to turn from searching to Lynching..
Rodolfo—I tend to think that if Natalee is dead, your scenario is the most likely one, and I think you’re right that Joran may have gotten the wrong idea about Natalee because she was in such a celebratory mood and that may have been mistaken for wildness or promiscuity. Keeping in mind that most lies have a kernel of truth at their center, think of this: Joran now says he “left” Natalee “asleep” on the beach after they had taken her to the lighthouse, and this sounds to me like that lie with a seed of truth in it. I think that “asleep on the beach” image may well be the image he keeps in his mind after what I consider the very distinct possibility that she had an adverse reaction to a drug of some kind (GHB? Crack?) administered to her either knowingly or without her knowledge (from what I’ve read of her I would guess it was the latter), and that Joran panicked when she became comatose, and left her on the beach. That friend of the vdS family said yesterday that Joran had told him Natalee was doing drugs and acting “crazy” when they took her on the ride—again, this sounds like the proverbial lie with a seed of truth at its center. She may have ingested drugs unknowingly and started freaking out, then gone into OD mode and gone unconscious. If they couldn’t bring her around, they may have panicked. This is all so sad, and I don’t believe she was intentionally murdered—I think the lives of so many people have been ruined by whatever happened that night.
This (to my mind) flies in the face of some people’s theory that Natalee’s ex boyfriend had something to do with her disappearance, because even if Joran did leave her on that beach, the b/f would have had no way of knowing she was there. And she never came back to her room at all. So that pretty much eliminates the former b/f, I think, by removing the opportunity for him to do anything to her.
I agree with WindNSeagurl. I think she was making the most of her last night in Aruba, mixed drugs and alcohol and overdosed. maybe the drugs were slipped in her drink or maybe not. Joran freaked out when she became unconcious. called daddy to bail him out. I read an article the the 2 brothers mother refused to let the Texas Equisearch team search their property.
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June 30th, 2005 at 9:16 pm
I heard about that, did you also see that they had Joran and one of the Kalpoe boys handcuffed together and taken to interrogation? I was shocked that they allowed them to be so close together and so was Nancy Grace. I would think that this might allow them to talk and perhaps get their stories straight. I guess there were guards with them so they wouldnt be allowed to talk much, but I just couldnt see that happening in the United States or even in Canada(where I am from). Natalee and her family will be in my prayers. I also wanted to thank you for taking the time to inform people from all over the world, hopefully Natalee will be found soon.
June 30th, 2005 at 9:25 pm
I did see Joran go in a car on 29 June .. wow did he look scared shitless
June 30th, 2005 at 11:54 pm
There are so many rumors involved with this case. You hear Paulus VD Sloot said this or that, how do we know for sure what he said exactly and the way in which he siad it. Charlotte aks why would he say this? Well, maybe he said it in context with the assumption that Natalee would be found, I believe he is supposed to have said this when everyone thought she would turn up. As in he (PVDS) thought she was a run-a-way and he told his son that he cant be arrested because no body has been found. You see we dont know what is going on, becasuee by Arubaian law the prosecutor cant divuldge any info. However, the Porsecuter tonight did divuldge some info and she is now breaking the law, byut trying the case in public. You know this goes on here in the USA all the time. the Prosecutor tries to win the public’s opinion by leaking info before the trial.
On a side note, think about 3 young boys/men have yet to break in more than 2 weeks of intensive interrogations. Unlike the USA these interrogations are very tough. Do you REAL THINK these 3 could hold out for this long? And all 3 of them, dont you think 1 of them would have broken or at the least slipped up and let some bit of info to come out? Even the prosecutor has stated the 3 ARE co-operating during the questioning? And my last point about how the story has changed 8 times, do you think you could NOt convince the authorites in these 2 weeks that if it was you that your story might subtlly changed a bit?
I hope Natalee is a run-a-way, then she is alive. I come away with the impression that MOST people want to find a dead body. So they can convict someone. I wish and pray that Natalee is alive not dead like most people. I dont care about her emabarrassment, or the fact that she might be a run-a-way, I just would like for this pretty younf lady to live out her life.
GWD
July 1st, 2005 at 12:24 am
I agree that Joran looked scared, in the pictures I had seen before I couldnt believe that he wasnt like 19 or 20 but when I saw the video today he looked like a scared little boy.
July 1st, 2005 at 1:01 am
In response to GWD,
There is no way Natalalee is a run away. Don’t insult her with that implication. You don’t travel to Aruba to run away. To imply that she ran away or committed suicide is further victimizing her. She would have taken her passport for God’s sake. Don’t insult her (or our) intelligence. Look at her family, and her friends and her accomplishments. She did not run away. S
I wish she were alive and that we weren’t even having to worry about the lack of justice in ARUBA. It breaks my heart to know what her mother is going through. It took many years before a murder was solved in my own family. It is hell not knowing.
I believe in my heart that Natalee was harmed by the creepy self-centered, spoiled 17 year old who was permitted to drink and gamble when he wasn’t even of legal aqe. His own father, a Judge, either knew that his son did these things or should have known that his son did these things. What irresponsible parents. They even allowed him to have his own apartment attached to their family home. Why would they do this if they cared to know what he was up to?
Who told the boys to lie? The scapeboat told Greta that it was the Judge father. The scapegoat has NO reason to lie Joran and his father obviously have reasons to lie. People who have no reason to lie DON”T. The truth is much easier to keep straight. Then again, when the truth would convict you of murder, perhaps you get together with your dad and your buddies and fabricate a lie.
Aruba botched this case from the beginning, and it is sickening.
God bless Natalee and her family. And may the guilty parties—all of them—be brought to justice.
July 1st, 2005 at 3:32 am
I think we need to deconstruct that instruction by Paul vdS to Joran and the Kalpoe brothers. We have to look at it analytically, asking ourselves some questions and considering some aspects of it:
(1) If your kids went out one night with a girl, and then the next day some people were looking for her, would you even THINK to say, “No corpse, no case?” Hell, no! The thought of “a corpse” wouldn’t even occur to you at this point…UNLESS you knew there WAS one.
(2) If the police hadn’t really even begun an investigation yet at the point when you tutored these guys in the finer points of law and evasion of justice, why would you even think to do it? Would that even occur to you? Or, not knowing Natalee yourself, wouldn’t you just surmise that the girl may have gone off to party somewhere else? You would have NO REASON to prepare these kids to stonewall the cops and to make a case for their defense.
(3) Okay then, so when there wasn’t even a “case” yet, WHY would you specifically instruct your son and his pals that without a corpse there was no case? This is the most important aspect to think about, IMO, and this is what I come up with: You would tell them this information as a cryptic suggestion that they’d sure as sh*t better get RID of the girl’s body somehow! You couldn’t actually come right out and TELL them to dump the body somewhere where it wouldn’t be found, right? NOT if you were still hoping for a judgeship (and a reputation)! Because that would be several crimes even beyond obstruction of justice. You would then be complicit in the girl’s disappearance. But what you COULD do without too much risk was to implant the suggestion in their minds that to save their asses they’d better get back to the body, wherever they’d stashed it, and dispose of it properly. You would use language that sounded general (“no corpse, no case”) so that later you could say it WAS general advice. What you wouldn’t have apparently considered was how f’ing BIZARRE it was to even say “no corpse no case” at that point. Unless you knew.
July 1st, 2005 at 9:27 am
Absolutely WindNSeaGurl. Well put.
Those young MEN (it really disgusts me to call them boys) lied and acted guilty before anyone else knew any crime had been committed. They knew there had been a crime that they needed to cover up—because they committed the crime(s).
The Island of Aruba should denounce the way the young men pointed to the 2 black (notice they weren’t Dutch) security guard scapegoats (who stayed in jail a lot longer than the “judge in training”). The Island of Aruba should also denounce Joran for hiding behind the fact he is a minor. He is only months away from being 18, and he sure was acting like 18 (drinking, driving, gambling). Why should he be treated like a minor now?
Any American school that offered him a scholarship should YANK it away pronto. What a creep. I wouldn’t want him going to my daughter’s college.
I hope he stays in jail. But if Aruba does let him out, let him stay in Aruba or Holland—not the USA.
July 1st, 2005 at 9:59 am
It sure seems to me that Everyone wants a Dead Body. I woould rather Natalee be alive. From day 3 – 99% of the people were wanting vengance, (which is fine if these 3 are guilty)However IMHO there was NOT enough effort put into finding Natalee. I think I kow what the family and neighborhood is going thru as I Live in Birmingham. So many here are Not following all of your scenarios and theories, and can we Not have concerns without being vilified? I want justice just as much as anyone else, however I think convicting someone in public is Not the way to go about a Solid conviction in a Trial.
I dont know Joran of his father or Natalee or her parents, but what is certain there are far more unanswered question than there are answers.
July 1st, 2005 at 2:45 pm
Guywdog, I think it’s unfair (and rather shocking, honestly) that you would accuse those who acknowledge the rational probability that Natalee is dead of doing so because they “want a dead body” and do not share your preference “that Natalee be alive.” I certainly hope Natalee is alive, and I believe most here do. But I also know that as time passes it becomes less and less likely that she is still alive, and if that be the case, then my wish is for her very admirable mother, father, and family to have at least an honest answer as to her fate—AND (IF she is dead) that those who are guilty or complicit in whatever act brought her to her death should be brought to justice.
July 1st, 2005 at 4:24 pm
W’n’SGurl- I got banned over at the scaredmonkeys web forum because they are a bunch of murder watchers. All of 2 dozen people have been banned over there because some of us are not of the lynch mob mentality. Meaning that for the majority over there all they wanted was a body so they could go ahead and lynch Joran. I dont know if he is guilty, (it sure seems he might be) However there was a group of us that had the opinion that Not Enough effort was made to find Natalee at the very beginning, maybe you could understand if you look at it that way.
Sorry you are shocked, but maybe you ought to think that there are LOTs of people that think the way I do.
July 1st, 2005 at 6:04 pm
WNSEAGurl, I was not pointing a finger in your direction, but the clear majority throughout the web are just into this for the spectical. Go check it out over at the scaredmonkeys website, that place is rampant with lynch mobs. And if you say you have an open mind it is banning time for you. I know of at least 6 people from the Netherlands that have been banned over there just because they look at things differently than we do over her ein the USA. They in no-way bashed natalee or her parents however they got banned because they ask questions, and then the amdins think they are slinging mud at Natalee. There are So Many unanswered questions surronding this case, such as Natalee’s “X” boyfriend went ont he TRIP on his Own and then didnt come back with the kids but he had pans all along to come back 3 days afterwards. So many rumors but so few facts. The Mountain Brrok high scholl kids have varying stories as to how this all happned, so much so that people like me aks questions, but then we are labeled Bashers or mud slingers. it sure does appear the 3 would most likely be the suspects, but what if they aren’t? The police have expelled all their energy and efforts into just 1 scenario. I fear they will never find Natalee, and I am sorry but if you spend some time on these forums you will see for yourself that the “STORY” is so much more important that Natalee. it also disgusts me to see people so quick to judge and so quick to turn from searching to Lynching..
GWdog
July 1st, 2005 at 9:13 pm
Rodolfo—I tend to think that if Natalee is dead, your scenario is the most likely one, and I think you’re right that Joran may have gotten the wrong idea about Natalee because she was in such a celebratory mood and that may have been mistaken for wildness or promiscuity. Keeping in mind that most lies have a kernel of truth at their center, think of this: Joran now says he “left” Natalee “asleep” on the beach after they had taken her to the lighthouse, and this sounds to me like that lie with a seed of truth in it. I think that “asleep on the beach” image may well be the image he keeps in his mind after what I consider the very distinct possibility that she had an adverse reaction to a drug of some kind (GHB? Crack?) administered to her either knowingly or without her knowledge (from what I’ve read of her I would guess it was the latter), and that Joran panicked when she became comatose, and left her on the beach. That friend of the vdS family said yesterday that Joran had told him Natalee was doing drugs and acting “crazy” when they took her on the ride—again, this sounds like the proverbial lie with a seed of truth at its center. She may have ingested drugs unknowingly and started freaking out, then gone into OD mode and gone unconscious. If they couldn’t bring her around, they may have panicked. This is all so sad, and I don’t believe she was intentionally murdered—I think the lives of so many people have been ruined by whatever happened that night.
This (to my mind) flies in the face of some people’s theory that Natalee’s ex boyfriend had something to do with her disappearance, because even if Joran did leave her on that beach, the b/f would have had no way of knowing she was there. And she never came back to her room at all. So that pretty much eliminates the former b/f, I think, by removing the opportunity for him to do anything to her.
July 2nd, 2005 at 5:17 am
I agree with WindNSeagurl. I think she was making the most of her last night in Aruba, mixed drugs and alcohol and overdosed. maybe the drugs were slipped in her drink or maybe not. Joran freaked out when she became unconcious. called daddy to bail him out. I read an article the the 2 brothers mother refused to let the Texas Equisearch team search their property.
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